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1980-01-09
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(Ted) Did everyone read the press release that Speiser
uploaded. GA
(DON) Hi ya all, I got a letter from Jim on our board
here stating that the networks should be releasing
the info on the Gulf Breezes sometime sat or
today. no word yet.
(Ted) Yes. I called th Gulf Breezes Sentinel on Friday,
but they refused to give out any info at this
time. They are however, sending me a copy of all
articles they have published to date on the
subject.
(DRAX) Greetings, Earthlings
(DON) Hi guy.
(Ted) Well speak of the !$#@@**. Hi Jim.
(DRAX) Hi Ted. Sorry, what were you talking about?
(Ted) Gulf Breezes and the news releasee you uploaded
earlier. Do you have any further info on the
subject.
(DRAX) Yup. <evil snicker>
(Ted) Don't keep us waiting. DUmp it SPeiser!
(DRAX) Haha....
(DRAX) From what I've been able to put together a press
conference took place on Friday, attended by,
among others, Walt Andrus, Donald Ware (FL MUFON
Dir.) and a couple of investigators. I understand
the main percipient was NOT there, still wants to
remain semi-anonymous.
According to Bruce Maccabee, a special camera was
sent by MUFON, registered and sealed, to be used
by the fellow. on his next photographic outing. He
did so, and, as Bruce says, "There's something
there....". The camera, according to Walt, was a
special 3-D model (anyone know anything like
that?). He has also passed a lie detector test.
That's about all I know now.
(Gerry) I know what 3-d cameras are, if that's what you're
asking.
(DRAX) Can such things be disguised as regular 35mm?
(Gerry) I'd think it unlikely, as they have two lenses.
(Ted) I have a 3-D camera but it is a slide type taking
two slides at once. I believe Dale is next.
(Dale) Pass.
(Ted) We are using formal CO rules tonight. If you have
a question or comment type a "?" or "!" I get to
you in order. Ok DBC your up GA
(DBC) Ok. Jim, what about this "amazing" vidio that was
viewed by Andrus and Hopkins?
(DRAX) All I know is, its reportedly "amazing." I haven't
seen it so I can't tell you much.
(Ted) ok Don Youre up.
(DON) Jim, I've kept my eye on the tube all weekend!
where is the news reprot?
(Ted) Jim repy?
(DRAX) Good kveschin. I think all you need do is refer to
my recent exchange in JFORUM to see that we in
ufology may have cried wolf once too often, and
now that perhaps we have a real wolf in the fold,
Big Media is putting us on permanent ignore.
(Ted) The sky is falling ! GA
(Ted) JIM, you got more out of Walt A. than I did. When
I talked to him earlier this week he told me they
had a special camera but wouldn't tell me what
kind. If it is the same 3-D type camera that I
have then I doubt they will ge much. You have to
be real close to get much of a three D effect.
(DRAX) Ok, I don't know for sure what type of camera it
is, Walt told me 3-D and also told me not to spill
the beans on that, but Bruce told me that he had
taken a picture with it, so I figured it was time.
Walt may not have described the camer properly,
however. GA
(Gerry) Even though you don't have much 3d effect you
still may get important differences in
registration of images which can turn up under
analysis.
(Ted) Yes, thats true. It would give the ability to
measure the distance to the object within limits.
(DRAX) A few points should be made. Its important that
the guy made the effort to use the camera. it was
registered. That indicates, at least, that he
doesn't fear "exposure" as a hoax. Its also the
first time a UFO percipient has ever used a
registered camera provided by investigators. Bruce
Maccabee is ufology's leading photo-analyst, and
while he has not passed final judgement on the
photos, he remains cautiously (oh so cautiously)
enthusiastic. "There's something there" from Bruce
is QUITE a bit of enthusiasm, I assure you.
(DON) Ok, Jim, two questions. First, was the half hour
documentry aired by the local Fla. station, and
next, the witness are you inferring that the
object kept returning to the same area to be
photographed? (and what about Budd?)
(DRAX) As far as I know, the show was aired, and John
Lear has arranged for a tape to be FedExed to him.
I should hear from him Monday. I don't know if the
object returned to the same location each time,
but this has been an ongoing series of sightings,
yes. And what about Budd? He's also enthusiastic.
(DON) I refer to Budds area of expertise-abductions-any
word? ga
(Ted) I understand that Budd is VERY enthusiastic about
the case and feels that the abduction is a
certainty. The abductee at last word was
unwilling to be hypnmotized at this time a little
fearful of the hypnosis, I understand. Jim did you
want to add more.
(DRAX) Beyond that he suspects a series of abductions,
no. Yes, I think we should just say that NOTHING,
of course, is a true certainty at this time, and
that enthusiasm <> endorsement. But it certainly
is looking very good so far to my knowledge,
nothing has yet turned up to throw a bad light on
the case.
(DBC) Jim, do I understand correctly that members of the
media in gulf breezes have seen the craft?
(DRAX) I don't think I've heard that. That is certainly
true in Texarkana, but not to my limited knowledge
in Gulf Breeze.
(DBC) I find it interesting that there have been so many
examples of media people who have actually
witnessed these things certainlly the case in the
Hudson valley as well as Arkansas. What bothers me
is why doesn' Big Media seem to have any faith in
Small Media?
(Ted) I think you can get the answer from the thread
going on under the subject "JFORM and UFOs".) They
are just plain not interested in anything that
does not have "researchable" material that can
hold up in the public scrutiny of fellows like
Phil Klass.
(DRAX) It looks like we're going to have to wait for Sam
Donaldson to be abudcted and do a live feed from
aboard a beamship before the subject gets the
attention it deserves speaking of Klass, I had
dinner with him the other night. GA
(Ted) Ok jim, what did he have to say and did you need
any bicarb afterwards. GA
(Dale) Traitor
(DON) THE BIG BUG-A-BOO, HUH??
(DRAX) "Keep your friends close, and your enemies closer"
--Don Corleone ... I always need bicarb after
eating in my restaurant. He knew nothing of
Texarkana, and very little of FL. after I
described a little of what I knew of the latter,
his reaction was basically, "Well, if you believe
in the govt. cover-up theory, you would think the
Air Force would be down there confiscating photos
and hushing up witnesses. The fact that they
aren't must prove to you that they think its a
hoax." He had some other things to say, most of
which left such a bad taste in my mouth I'd rather
not repeat them. GA
(Ted) Jim, do you think that Klass really believes all
the theories ne puts out. (I was going to say CRAP
but thought better of it.) ga
(DON) manure also fits
(DRAX) Yes, I do. I don't believe he is in the employ of
the govt because I'd like to think the govt. would
spend my tax dollars on a better debunker.
(Ted) Ok, I think we have been ignoring DON and for
that I beg forgiveness. Ok DON you're up.
(DBC) Ted, Neil. is here.
(DON) Thank you. Ok, I think that DBC made an execellt
point about the large medias. I find it hard to
believe that potentially the largest story of this
centuray could be ignored in this manner so I
think that there could be another reason for them
to ignore this story. Anyone else think so? ga
(Ted) Neil it appears you have generated a lot of
interest here tonight. Bring us up to date on the
Lake Erie triangle.
(Neil) Ted, the Erie Triangle is not what it is called.
The Lake ontario triangle is where the Triangle
is, but many sightings do occur on Lake Erie. This
will take a minute of everyone's timw, but to
answer John.'s ?, if you go to the public library,
the U.S. Geological Survey Team has a U.s. Gov't
photo(infrared) that shows the structure under
Lake Ontario. As far as the magazine name, I
discussed this with my team & they said no way at
giving the name out over the air, but if I were to
meet you in person or talk on the phone, that's a
different case.
(Ted) Neil, I tried to call you on the Phone this week.
The operator said that either you didn't exist or
that you had an unlisted number. I figure the MIB
had gotten to you! I tried to get your number
through information in Rochester. If you number
is unlisted please send it to me via EMAIL.
(Neil) Sounds great!!! Yes, it is unlisted...I have to or
owe you a reply, but you will get my # before I
exit the forum tonight!
(Joe) Thanks, just a fast comment on Big Media. Check
out the March 5 TV Guide, under Jeers on Page 23,
its a criticism of Network News for SOFT stories
(like UFOs).
(DBC) Neil, you were trying to give us some clues on the
name of the mag but about all I could come up with
was Rand McNally with emphasis on the RAND. Is
this close? also could you tell us what section of
the lake this "ufo base" is suppose (DBC) to be
located.?....and finally since you say you have
seen the craft over 300 times, do you have a
secret for how to locate them or a sense of when
and where to look?
(Neil) I wonder!!!
(Ted) ga NEIL
(Ted) Neil GA
(Neil) The approximate location is between NiagAra-on-
the-Lake & Toronto,Ca & it is about 15
mile(approx.) from the N-o-t-L Shoreline......GA
(DRAX) I hafta git going, but wanted to drop in a couple
of bulletins first, we're working on getting an
online press conference for the Convention Center
on the Gulf thing will try to get Bruce Maccabee I
guess thats about it...take it easy, yall, its
bowling time!
(Ted) Does this mean you're coming back!!!<looking
hopeful!> GA
(DRAX) Some day, son, some day not right away tho. GA
(Neil) Drax, I wasn't on earlier...whats the 'GULF
THING???GA
(DRAX) 'splain it to him, guys...I gotta dash. Bye!
(Ted) Neil read the DL10 Database in a recent addition.
(Last two days) for further info. ga
(Neil) Thanks, Ted!!!!GA
(Randy) Anybody know what happened in Texarkana....I was
about to go down there??
(Ted) There has been a recent UFO series of sightings
there. Much like those of the Hudson valley
variety. GA
(Randy) Apparently about 500 people have reported seeing a
vehicle like the Hudson Valley craft??
(Ted) Neil. john abrams had a question on the board
about the gov't document. Perhaps john would
like to bring it up here? GA
(John) neil, what is the name of the magazine? tell me
more about the photo?ga
(Neil) John, please understand this I cannot reveal the
name over the air waves, but in person or on
telephone....GA
(Ted) Neil, we would also like to know more about the
gov't photo that you have...
(Neil) it specifically shows a long...
(John) neil will you c i will send you my phone no. over
easyplex call me collect
(Neil) Sounds fine with me but near the end of this CO
session. OK
(Ted) the govt photo did it have a number on it. GA
(Neil) NO, we found it was not necessary for being
published.GA
(Randy) Neil....Did your photo have any government
identification numbers on it, or the specific name
of any government agency???
(Neil) The U.S. Geological Survey Team is the one that
has access to 3 diffent sattelites!!!...GA
(Randy) Did the photo have the terms "LANDSAT", SEASAT",
or any similar nomenclature stamped on the back or
front???
(Neil) The original photo from U.S.Geo had something
similar to SEASAT...GA
(Randy) Does the photo have any U.S. Geologi?
(DBC) you were about to describe what's in the photo
please continue.ga
(Neil) The photo shows a structure under water that comes
out the Western part of toronto and purtrudes
approx. 15 miles out. Our team check out
everything possible even Toronto Water Works &
they know of no such structure!!!GA
(Ted) Has you're team sent out any underwater divers? I
know a little about the waters there enough to
know that if you're seeing a structure under water
then it can't be too deep. The waters there are
just not that clear.
(Neil) Our team can not find anyone with the guts to go
out there at night when the most activity takes
place...There have been many planes and) small
watercraft that have disappeared over the
years...Any Volunteers?
(Ted) Neil, I would think that the time to go out would
be during the day when it is easier to see what is
under the water. From what I remember of the
waters in that area the structure couldn't be more
that 50 feet or less and still be able to see it
under the best of condtions.
(Neil) That is one thing our team can't say;is how deep
the structure is in the water I do know it is
quite deep. Cousteau's son had his air line cut'
by something' & he died in those waters. What cut
the air line who knows. This happened not too many
years back.
(Randy) Yes, first a comment and then 2 questions for
Neil. The comment is that satellite imagery does
not necessarily illustrate depth or visibility
conditions in water...the questions for Neil are
1). Do you have the U.S.Geological Survey Photo
Numbers for the prints in your possession??...and
2) Are the prints primarily in red/brown tones, or
in green/blue tones, or do they appear to be
"regular" color photographs???
(Neil) The closest is 'red/brown' tones...I have a photo
in my posession that is cropped for detail and
unfrtunately the public labrary has the U.S.Geo
photos under refernce...It frustrates me when
these obstacles are always in the way!!!GA
(Gerry) IR may not scatter at the same rate in the murk as
does visible light. Anybody know? Also the
small-scale detail may be lost before the large-
scale structure.
(Ted) IR doesn't scatter as much but does get absorbed
faster. GA
(Gerry) Ok. Just thought I'd bring it up. ga
(Ted) Good question. GA
(Neil) Ted, please be more discriptive...
(Gerry) But even if absorbed, isn't it re-transmitted,
rather sort of diffused? ga
(Ted) I'm not sure what you mean by re-transmitted. GA
(Gerry) Only thinking that the general temperature of the
water above the object may be changed by its IR
radiation. If it were, it would show up in IR
photos.
(Ted) If the water is warm it will give off IR radiation
do we know that the photos were of IR nature? GA
(Randy) YES....!!!
(Ted) Then I guess the resolution all depends on how
deep and how "hot" the object is also how much
energy absorbing material there is. oK Randy
anything more. GA
(Randy) Yes...I have to ask Neil if the images were
digitized, that is, consisting of small squares,
or true linear IR photographs, I.E., no small
squares??
(Neil) True Linear IR photos!!!...Ted, I am serious when
I mentioned about any takers with a good size
watercraft that will go out on the lake around
dusk...GA
(Ted) Anyone out there with a craft willing to go out in
these waters? If not....
(DBC) Not me thankyou!!!!!
(Ted) Neil why don't you post a message on the message
board.
(Joe) IR would only show heat differential, what is at
the land end of the structure and is the
structrure hot or cold?? .. ga
(Neil) Good idea, Ted!!!
(Randy) Right!!!
(Neil) Light differiental is also involved with IR
photos!GA
(DBC) Neil, from what position have you been observing
the entries/exits into the underwater base) and
have you estimated how often the entries/exits
occur?
(Neil) It used to be almost every Wed. and Sunday
nights...somestimes a person will sit there for 4
hours and in the last 15 minutes of that 4 hours,
everything happens or it could be weeks...Ted, I
would like to make a statement on the photos...GA
(John) sit where
(Ted) Ok NEIL GA
(Neil) first, John., Niagara-on-the-lake, Canada) looking
toward Toronto,Canada...Ted, The IR photos from
the sattelite match our land triaglation perfectly
of where the base is!GA
(John) neil, you sit and watch these craft entering and
leaving the structure from 15 miles away?
(Neil) Approximately...I would rather say 12 miles away
to give an exact figure, John!!!GA
(John) how can you tell exactly what you are observing
from that distance? how large are the craft?
(Neil) Answer to first ?: through binoculars,camera but
actual shape(s) are Lights with shape & there are
many variation...Our team is not totally positive
if there is anything else besides the lights we
see at dusk & nighttime. There is one daylight
picture that is totally different from the craft
we see at night...as far as sizes, from 50 feet
wide & up. GA
(Randy) Thanks Ted....I have to check out in a few
minutes, but just wanted to mention that I will
check the current generation sat data on this area
during the week, and let everybody know next week
if any of the digital stuff shown anything like
Neil describes in the area of Niagra-on-the-Lake.
It sounds like he has come upon an older linear IR
camera image of the area...some of these types of
images have problems...I wish I had the U.S Geo
area numbers and would appreciate Neil providing
those?>??
(Neil) Randy 1977
(Randy) Does Neil have coordinates or U.S. Geo numbers???
(Neil) The U.S. Geo might refer you to the public
library...how does it go...roand & round the
uokjukmkl if you know what I mean!!!GA
(Ted) How about ther numbers Neil? GA
(Randy) I don't have that problem, Neil!!
(Neil) Public Library should provide recent #'S. I'm glad
someone does not have that problem...GA
(Ted) Am I lost or are we talking in riddles? GA
(Neil) We are in the conference room...heh,heh!!GA
(Gerry) First, a question to Neil: What motions do you
observe? Vertical into and away from the horizon
or something else? Second, I used to work at UC
Berkeley Space Sciences Lab where ...Second is not
for you neil, first is. Second is, SSL had a large
remote sensing project, which could possibly have
relevant photos. Also know some people on the SETI
project at Ames who might be friendly enough to
look up whatever info on these photos might exist
there. Any feeling about whether it would be
worthwhile renewing old contacts over this?ga
anybody
(Neil) YES!!!
(DBC) definitely gerry.
(Gerry) Ok, I will do so.ga
(Neil) Leave me E-Mail on results,if possible. There are
many variations to flight of these craft...e.g.-
leaf falling effect swirling,from direction to
direction you name it...especially with using
color infrared slide film...it does wonders!!!GA
(Joe) Two quickies, first, I do not understand the
magazine part of the discussion. second, are the
photos being published?
(Neil) Which photos:the IR phoros about the structure of
ufos..GA
(Joe) your photos
(Neil) YES. Some have been previously published in local
area newspapers, but a book will be released in
the early 1990's. GA
(John) neil, i think that joe was asking aboout the
magazine that you mentioned last week will you at
least tell me if it is a nationwide publication or
is it some regional or local type of publication i
still do not understand why you withold its name
from us, publicly.
(DBC) More clues Neil.ga
(Neil) Weren't you the one earlier that mentioned the
name of a publication??? Keep it to yourself!GA
(DBC) yes.ga
(Neil) Yes!!!...
(Ted) Which edition? GA
(Neil) A different way of saying it!!! 1977
(Ted) Which page. GA
(Neil) All the Great Lakes!!!
(Ted) I guess that lets the cat out of the bag! GA
(Neil) In a different perspective, I might say!!!GA
(Ted) DO all editions subsequent to 1977 have it or just
that year? GA
(Neil) Just that year at excellent quality!!!
(Ted) You heard it first here Folks! GA
(John) now i want neil to again describe exactly what to
look for in the magazine photo.ga
(Neil) A long structure under the lake coming from
Torontos east end, under the lake! You can't miss
it!!!GA
(John) ok i'll check
(Neil) TED! Could you please leave me mail with your home
#.GA
(Ted) Sure Be gald to. I will be gone tommorrow but
will be at work on Tuesday. The Wed I will be in
Ann ARbor but back Thurs. I will leave number in
EMAIL. GA
(Neil) When do you feel you will get off of here,
tonight???GA
(Ted) Shortly. GA
(Ted) Like 10 Min. GA
(Neil) If possible, Toight.GA
(Ted) It's busy now. GA
(DBC) I was going to ask Neil about his abduction
studies, but perhaps its getting too late to get
into that.ga
(Neil) Well, The abduction case correlate with Lake
Ontario & Erie, but it is a little late this
evening to start, I feel!!!GA
(DBC) how about next week?ga
(Ted) Good Idea! GA
(Neil) As a part of the conference, sure
(Ted) Can you make it next week Neil GA
(Neil) I like to give other people a chance to talk,
also! Next Week, it is!!!GA
(Ted) GREAT, see you all then I must be logging off now.
Nite All. GA
(John) nite guysnite
(Joe) goodnight
(DBC) nite Ted, Nite all.
(John) nite guys
(Neil) Ted, you will hear from me shortly!......and John,
thanks for the E-Mail. Greatly appreciated!!!nite
all.GA
(DBC) nite Neil
(Neil) nite dbc
(John) nitenite
(Gerry) good night
(Neil) exiting...........
